Episode 79: am i the asshole for refusing to wake him up?
Summary
In this conversation, Laura and Crystal discuss a Reddit post about a woman questioning whether she is the asshole for refusing to wake up her boyfriend in the morning, which almost caused him to lose his job. They explore the dynamics of responsibility, self-advocacy, and personal growth. They also touch on the importance of allowing children to experience discomfort and failure as a means of developing valuable life skills. The principal themes of the conversation are the lack of self-awareness and responsibility on the part of the partner with ADHD, the impact of the partner's behavior on the narrator's sleep and daily life, the imbalance of dependence in the relationship, and the need for open communication and consent. The conversation also touches on the importance of self-awareness and reciprocal care in relationships, the challenges of living with a partner who has different sleep patterns or habits, and the potential for the situation to worsen over time. The key takeaways include the importance of setting boundaries, advocating for one's own needs, and recognizing when a relationship is becoming unhealthy.
Takeaways
Taking responsibility for one's own actions and choices is important for personal growth and development.
It is not fair or reasonable to expect someone else, such as a partner, to take on the responsibility of waking you up in the morning.
Allowing children to experience discomfort and failure can be valuable for their personal growth and development.
Self-advocacy and self-reflection are important skills to develop in order to navigate challenges and make positive changes in one's life. Lack of self-awareness and responsibility can strain a relationship.
The partner's behavior can have a significant impact on the narrator's sleep and daily life.
There is an imbalance of dependence in the relationship, with the narrator feeling responsible for the partner's actions.
Open communication and consent are essential in maintaining a healthy relationship.
Setting boundaries and advocating for one's own needs is crucial.
Recognizing when a relationship is becoming unhealthy is important for one's well-being.
Transcript
Laura (00:30)
Hey there, welcome back. This is Time to Lean with Laura and Crystal. How are you, Crystal?
Crystal (she/her) (00:35)
Hello.
I'm scattered this morning. I was sick last week and so I'm trying to I feel like I am like what day is it Tuesday? It's definitely Thursday. So I feel I feel very scattered. I feel very like where am I? What day is it? What am I supposed to be doing? If I didn't have a calendar?
Laura (00:46)
Is it?
Yeah, no, this week is disorienting and the like, back to school is still weird. And this is the week of Labor Day weekend, which is weird. Yeah. Yeah.
Crystal (she/her) (01:05)
that's right. We lost a day. That's right. I keep I do keep forgetting that that we did lose a day, which I would be confused about what day it is anyway. But yeah, also because we lost. Yeah, a workday.
Laura (01:14)
the end.
It's a weird one. Okay, I mean, let's jump right into it. We have, you all really liked last week's Am I the Asshole? And it was such a, gosh, it was so good. So if you didn't hear it, it was about, it was an, I the asshole for filing for divorce because my husband tightens the lids, over tightens the lids.
Crystal (she/her) (01:41)
Mm -hmm.
Laura (01:42)
And think overall, everyone decided not the asshole. But the conversation that we had about it, as you all know, was meandering.
Crystal (she/her) (01:54)
Listen, it was an hour and a half of one of the most popular episodes we've had. I'm just saying it pulled us back into the Apple podcast charts. If it was meandering, we did a really good job connecting with our audience. Killing it.
Laura (02:01)
you
Yeah. Yeah, it was really good. There was a lot to talk about. It's one of those things where it seems like such a small deal to be annoyed about someone who over tightens the lids, but it points to a much bigger issue, which we love.
Crystal (she/her) (02:29)
Yes, pointing to a much bigger issue and the nuance of that and taking like that validating of like, is this something to be upset about? Like, is this okay to be upset about? Yeah, and the isolation of that and not having anybody to bounce that off of for sure.
Laura (02:33)
Mm
Yeah.
Yeah. And I think that's what's so great about Am I the Assholes? Because it's usually someone who's like, I don't know, everyone else is telling me I'm being totally unreasonable or the person that is involved with this makes me feel like I'm unreasonable. we pulled another one. And Crystal, you're going to read it, right?
Crystal (she/her) (03:03)
Mm -hmm.
Yes, I'm super excited just based on the title alone. Okay, so am I the asshole for refusing to wake my boyfriend up in the morning, which made him almost lose his job? Yeah.
Laura (03:21)
Okay, pause.
What do you think?
Crystal (she/her) (03:26)
No, no. No. Like if I had to throw a stamp on it based on the title, no. You don't know. Absolutely not the asshole. Is he paying you to do that? Like, you know, like that's, that's your that's his responsibility.
Laura (03:34)
No. Not the asshole.
Okay.
right.
The only circumstance, this is where it's like, okay, it's boiled down. So it's like, we're gonna have to hear. So, okay, did you tell him you were going to? Like, did you say that you were going to and then you didn't? Like, right. Is this a situation where he it's like an accommodation you two have made for him to support him?
Crystal (she/her) (03:54)
Right.
Right. Was it an agreed upon thing? Mm Yep.
because that's a different situation, right? Yes, 100%. Okay. I can already see ADHD. So now I kind of feel like an asshole. Okay, so let's, okay. So it starts, so I, 25 female, have been with my boyfriend, 25 male, for almost a year. And during our entire relationship, he has struggled with waking up in the morning because of his ADHD. He sleeps through all of his alarms, which usually means he's late for work. Sometimes it's only 10 to 15 minutes, but it can also stretch to an hour.
Laura (04:09)
Yeah, but we'll see.
Crystal (she/her) (04:37)
His boss likes him and has given him plenty of chances, but yesterday he got his last warning that if he doesn't show up on time, he will lose his job. We've had a couple of discussions slash arguments about this over the last year because he believes it's my responsibility as his girlfriend to wake him up. But I don't. Despite me waking up from his alarms and being able to shove him out of bed if need be, I don't think it's my responsibility.
He is an adult, has known about his ADHD since he was a child, and should by now have found some method that works. Him making it my responsibility turns me into a caregiver, a mother instead of a girlfriend. This doesn't mean I refuse to help him whatsoever. I've done plenty of research to find alternative methods, but either it didn't work or he refuses to do it. I do wake him when his alarms go off, but he decides to go back to sleep right after. Had he not done that, I would gladly wake him up every single day. I know that this is only my perspective.
and is most likely not true from his, but when he decides to just go back to sleep, makes it seem like he doesn't want to try. Not to mention the fact that he is especially grumpy slash angry in the mornings and have on several occasions yelled at me for both waking him up and for not waking him up. And I don't want to help if he's just going to get mad and then in parentheses, even though I know he doesn't mean it. But when his boss gave him his last warning yesterday, I felt so much guilt.
because had I woken him up and been persistent, he wouldn't be in this situation. So I'm at an impasse. Is it my responsibility? Am I in the wrong for not helping? Or should he as an adult be able to do this by himself? Because I kind of feel like I am the asshole, but also not. Do you want me to read the edit or do want me to wait? Okay, I'll wait.
Laura (06:11)
Okay, wait. Yeah, let's wait. With that context now, what do you think?
Crystal (she/her) (06:18)
Still not the asshole. No. Like, okay. And I also understand the guilt that she feels because this is the dynamic that happens in relationships very easily where you want your partner to succeed. You cannot want for your partner to succeed more than they want themselves to succeed. Or like the like
Laura (06:20)
Why?
Crystal (she/her) (06:41)
the will to change or the motivation to change. we talk about motivational interviewing as like a therapeutic intervention, motivational interviewing, I've talked a little bit about here on before, but stages of change exist on a scale. If he is not in a place, you can't make someone be at a place where they want to tip the scales into action. You can't do that. You can't go from a contemplative stage to an action stage. You can't make someone do that. They have to do that internally.
or else the change won't hold. So when we're kids, we have to have that modeled for us because we have to have examples. But the intrinsic motivation to do that comes later. And yeah, like some people do, I have to have my Adderall to do that. I have to have the right amount. You and I were talking last week, I had to increase my dosage of Prozac because I was like, something's not working. But I can't wait.
until I've been in bed for three weeks and can't get out of bed for Ben to go and then to blame Ben and be like, why didn't you tell me I should up my dosage? He's not responsible for that. He doesn't know how much Prozac I take. You know what I mean? That'd be bonkers.
Laura (07:52)
Right. that's the thing is like.
him noticing like, hey, you're acting off, like something is going on. Also, it's kind of affecting the rest. Like I'm worried about you. It's affecting the rest of the family. And you snapping at him, snapping at him about telling you and then refusing the support or not doing anything with that information. That's the part here that
Crystal (she/her) (08:07)
Right.
Yes.
Laura (08:23)
Like, okay, so spoiler alert, I talk about something very nuanced like this in my book. A similar situation, somebody that I spoke to had something like this happen. And what this person in the Am I the Asshole says is, like, I'm not not helping. I did a ton of research on this for him and presented it. What he's doing here, I know this always comes off like a strong word, and we've used it before.
But it's an entitlement. It's an assumption that this person, he thinks I should do it because I'm his girlfriend, because that's what they do. And I think that this gets really tricky. It gets really tricky when the consequences fall on her or if you have kids where it's like...
Crystal (she/her) (08:55)
Mm -hmm.
Laura (09:17)
Okay, now you're going to lose your job and how we don't have enough money to pay our bills. And so what are you going to do? You're going to be mad at me and I'm going to be mad at you because you like it's that failure to put in the effort that hurts everybody. But the responsibility and blame fell to someone who was giving their best effort. But the other person wasn't.
Crystal (she/her) (09:22)
Right. Right.
Right.
Right. Right. Yes. And in this situation, she cannot stand in for him at work. Right? Like, that is what hinges on the finances and the problem of he now has escalated to a point where if he doesn't show up for work on time, his boss is going to let him go while she can't show up for him at work, which tells me then
Laura (10:03)
Mm -hmm.
Crystal (she/her) (10:07)
the alarm and waking him up and making sure that he gets up and making sure that he gets out the door to work. Like, how far does her responsibility go? Does she need to like ride with him to work, drive him to work, drop him off, walk him into the building? Like she can't.
Laura (10:17)
Yeah. Yeah.
We can make a ton of assumptions about what's going on here. Because I feel like I know my mom listens to this. She probably she had to do the hell out of this with me. Like as a as a teenager, I slept through alarms. I didn't wake up. I was always like, I would like stay up all night and then sleep all day. Mind you, neither of us knew I had bipolar two.
Crystal (she/her) (10:47)
Right.
Laura (10:47)
or ADHD. like, I would have like bouts of depression that lasted a year and would not be able to get out of bed. And it would just come off like I was lazy or not trying. And I think that she did try really hard to like coach me through that. And she tried to teach me personal responsibility.
Crystal (she/her) (10:59)
Right.
Mm -hmm.
Mm -hmm.
Laura (11:11)
She tried to teach me all of those things. And I failed. I mean, I failed out of high school. I don't know if I've ever... I did not graduate high school. And I had to finish up credits post -fake graduation to actually get my diploma. And I learned an incredibly valuable lesson. And the same thing happened... my gosh. Today's my nine -year sober anniversary.
Crystal (she/her) (11:22)
Mm -hmm.
Congratulations! Nine years is a long time. Great job!
Laura (11:42)
Thank you. It is. But sometimes I would drink too much and then I would be late for work or I would have a panic attack because I would have the hangover anxiety the next day and then I would miss work. Even for people who I really liked and who were really nice to me and I missed work. Could someone have called me? Could someone have helped me? Could someone have cut me off the night before? Absolutely.
I would have yelled at them for doing that.
Crystal (she/her) (12:13)
Right.
Right. Right. Right. Right. I would not have liked that. Mm -hmm.
Laura (12:20)
No, but it's not anyone else's responsibility, ultimately. And I think like what we said before, did they agree to that? Is that the setup? Is he really saying like, I'm truly incapable of this despite all like, I've also researched it, you've researched it. We've tried the I had that alarm clock from like, hammock or Schlemmer or whatever the hell, where it was like the wheels.
Crystal (she/her) (12:46)
yeah. What is it? Brookline? God damn it. Like a sharper image. Thank you. Yes. Adjacent. Yes. huh.
Laura (12:51)
Brooklyn, sharper image. And it was like the, had wheels on it and I would hit it. Yes. So like, get it fully get it. we set off like seven snoozes every morning.
Crystal (she/her) (12:59)
Weird runaway from you.
My my sister the other day we were talking about one of my one of my kids having a hard time. And as she's the one where I'm like ADHD inattentive like me. And my sister was like we shared a room for a really long time. And I slept on a pullout trundle when we shared a room together in high school. And she's like, No, Crystal, I can remember you just sitting up because this was before we had cell phones. I wasn't on my phone. She's like, you would just sit there you would be sat up.
in bed just with your eyes closed or like staring at the wall. And I'd be like, she's gonna make us fucking late for school. She's gonna make us late for school. And I was like, I totally remember doing that. I totally remember being just being like, I can't I'm still like that. I'm still like that.
Laura (13:44)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It drives drives Jack crazy that in the mornings, my eight year old and I just lay on the ground together. We just like pet the cat. It go hi baby. Hello birdie. What you doing? We're just like both of us. This morning she was playing.
Crystal (she/her) (14:03)
Yeah
Pet the cat, pet the cat, pet the cat.
It's that meme, it's that view. Do you know you have 30 minutes? Do you know you have 30 minutes?
Laura (14:21)
Exactly. Totally relatable. Totally get it. But what I was saying about... I don't think that boys... I think that this is that whole thing that we see all the time where it's like, boy, mom. And there's the book, Boy, Mom, which Crystal and I both found very thought provoking. We both had a lot of good conversations about...
Crystal (she/her) (14:29)
God, I wish I could be that laid back.
Yes.
Laura (14:51)
But the idea that we underestimate boys a lot, we underestimate a lot of our kids, that's what you're saying, is like we rob them of the ability to do so many things or skill practice or skill development.
Crystal (she/her) (15:10)
And, and part of that, I think too, I have to say, I like, I don't sit here like hoity toity, like, well, clearly, like, you need to let your kids be uncomfortable and struggle. Like, I think that it comes a lot of times from a very good place of like, I don't want to repeat the generational cycles and patterns that I felt as a kid to put this pressure on my kids. So want them to know I'm able to help. I had to have my therapist be like, Hey, it's okay for him to be uncomfortable.
It's okay for them to fail at something. It's okay for them to be upset, right? Like that is a valuable lesson, right? And so I had to, I have had to work through that with my, and I texted you last week about a different kid that I'm like, I, they're really anxious about this and I don't know how to fix, you know, how to fix it. And you were like, you don't have to fix it. Here's how you can navigate them through it. Right. Because it's like, but I think sometimes it's, it's even unintentional, even when you're trying to be the best parent that you can.
Laura (15:36)
Mm Mm -hmm.
Crystal (she/her) (16:04)
Those are valuable, valuable lessons for them. There was a book that was one of the elected readings when I was in college called The Lessons of a Skinned Knee that pulled from Jewish storytelling. It was written by a rabbi, I believe, but Jewish storytelling that taught about the value of allowing your kids to try and fail and hurt, and that there is something about that kind of clean pain that is
valuable so that they're not losing their job or one warning away from losing their job because they've been so perpetually late and they're actually blaming it on their girlfriend.
Laura (16:44)
Right, yeah.
Placing the blame, it's that self -advocacy. I think I told you, what's the prayer? The serenity prayer. The serenity prayer. How does it
Crystal (she/her) (16:55)
God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change. The courage should change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference.
Laura (17:01)
Yeah, that's a sobriety thing. That's a sobriety thing. I really like, didn't you say something like accountability is not always a word that people take well. But yeah, it for me taught me a lot of like self advocacy and accountability for that one, which like it helped me discern, okay, grant me the in
Crystal (she/her) (17:03)
Mm -hmm.
Mm -hmm.
Laura (17:28)
Personally, I'm not a religious person, but I like the idea of, you know, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change. Okay, can I change this? Like, that's the question. Can I change this? If so, how? And then it's the courage to change the things I can. Okay, if I think that I can change this, I need to self -reflect and understand that I have some work to do or be brave enough to...
Crystal (she/her) (17:38)
Right.
Right.
Laura (17:57)
And in this case, it's a lot of times for me, it's like asking for help. It's thinking critically about my role in things. And then the wisdom to know the difference. And that's to me like acceptance or knowing when to quit or it's just like the wisdom to know the difference is discernment and self -trust. So I think that this is really like
Crystal (she/her) (18:06)
Mm -hmm.
Yeah.
Mm -hmm.
Laura (18:26)
If I could encapsulate the idea of self -responsibility or good faith effort, and I like this framing because it's not only just a good faith effort and being like, I tried. I tried. Can't do it. Tried. It's like, okay, I'm going to come at this with a different angle. I need to know the difference. Is this way working? If it's not working, then I need to try it different way. like we've both said,
Crystal (she/her) (18:32)
Yeah.
Right. Right.
Laura (18:54)
incredibly forgetful. I will get up, will roll on the ground for 30 minutes. But also, I have learned the things that are priorities. like, for example, just this morning, we were talking about the timing in the morning, because it makes Jack very, very anxious that I just dilly dally. And I'm not worried about it.
Crystal (she/her) (19:01)
Mm -hmm.
Right. Right. Right. And you are not stressed by it. Yeah. Yep.
Laura (19:21)
And one of the things that is weird, I'm pretty good at time estimation. Like I know that that's one of those, it's one of those ADHD skills, but like my ability to guesstimate how much time something is going to take is pretty spot on. Maybe that's my anxiety. But this morning, he was like, what time do think we need to leave the house to get to school on time?
Crystal (she/her) (19:29)
That is weird. I'm terrible at that.
That's amazing. That's great.
Laura (19:50)
I was like, we need to be there at eight. I think that we need to leave at 753. That will give us... yeah. Mind you, that gives me a two -minute leeway. I'm going to start getting the shoes on at like 751 because I know how long it takes.
Crystal (she/her) (19:56)
You're that spot on? Holy shit, Laura, that's incredible.
Laura (20:15)
This also makes my mom really nervous because I'm down to the wire.
Crystal (she/her) (20:19)
Because you're down. Yeah, that's the thing. It's like having the thing of like, I'm not in a hurry, because I know down to the minute and you're just like, the people around you are like sitting on the edge of their seats like what she's gonna do it. I just is she gonna make it that's like a minute to win it every single morning. That's yeah, stressful.
Laura (20:35)
Yes. Yes. Yeah.
Crystal (she/her) (20:41)
As a person who cannot estimate time, that would be like, my god, like I just know the way that's gonna take 10 minutes. Nope, I got it down to a science.
Laura (20:50)
But it is like it's challenging when other kids like the kids are in the mix. And so I can't really count for how if they're going to resist me or not. But even then, like I can sort of track and estimate that time based on vibes. So I mean, yeah, those are those are lessons that I have learned over time. And it's because of messing up or being late or it's just skills that I've had to brush up on. Yeah.
Crystal (she/her) (20:57)
Yes.
Right.
Right.
Yeah. Because and that's the thing, like you have those skill development opportunities because someone else wasn't assuming that responsibility for you. Do you know what I mean? Like that's what's bonkers is that it's like if you would just continually blame to other people and you're like your mom, your like friends, like partners, it would be you would not have that skill set.
Laura (21:29)
Right.
Right. And I'm sure, I mean, this is something I have and I fought about like constantly throughout high school. Because I was not learning that skill well. I was like, really not learning that skill. And yeah, that was rough for everybody. But I still, I eventually learned it. And that's, I imagine that as a mother, I'm going to really struggle.
Crystal (she/her) (21:57)
Sure. Yeah.
Laura (22:11)
letting my kids suffer the consequences on that one. Because here's the thing, I failed the two morning classes and it didn't let me graduate because I didn't get to school. yeah, that was a really rough lesson. And it could have been a lot worse. I did end up graduating, but I don't know what the right answer is. ultimately, it was my responsibility.
Crystal (she/her) (22:15)
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Mm -hmm.
Yeah, it's.
And it's hard to to like, especially when you resonate or when something resonates with you because you experienced it like it's it's really hard to watch someone you love go through that. And I think in this am I the asshole like the insult to injury is him yelling at her when he when she does wake him up.
and that he's grumpy in the mornings and then it's like to me and again, we're making a lot of assumptions, but it sounds like there's a lack of self awareness on his part or a self like a self reflection of curiosity of like, yeah, that's true. Like getting up in them. Cause if you've had ADHD since you were a kid, there are a lot of stereotypes that, know, just kind of like off there's a, there was a lack of curiosity and interest in like the nuance of what that looks like as an adult because it's considered like a childhood issue.
But that's a lot of ADHDers. Our brains are wired to be up late at night and to thrive and be more creative and aware at night. And in the mornings, sluggish, grumpy, like I need to wake up to the day and not know, like I know that about myself now. So my first appointments don't start till nine, right? So like, I just know that about myself. But when you don't have that self -awareness,
and you blame somebody else for it and then get mad at them after you've asked for help with it. And it's not that they haven't done it, but it's that you haven't executed on it. That's internal. Then you're taking stuff that's upsetting you about yourself and projecting it onto somebody else. And that's not okay.
Laura (24:18)
Yeah. that's... This thing about ADHD always comes up. It seems like it always comes up in these conversations. But this... this pushing off the responsibility happens a lot of times, like, outside of the, you know... ADHD, feel like it's used, comes up in these conversations.
Crystal (she/her) (24:43)
yeah.
Laura (24:46)
Guess, well, hold on, what am I trying to say?
I... yeah, I don't know what I'm saying. I'm gonna...
Crystal (she/her) (24:53)
Are you saying that it's like used as an excuse? Like a lot of times it's used as like a scapegoat.
Laura (24:58)
I don't think I want to say that because I don't want to record that. Crystal, can you read? I'm curious if there's any additional information that might give us a little clarity to this. Can you read the rest of it?
Crystal (she/her) (25:01)
Hmm
Totally. Yes. So the one edit says, feel like I should mention more to the reason I don't want to wake him up. It's not like I can't since I'm already awake. But first of all, this affects my day too. I can't go to sleep before him because our bedroom doesn't have a door and then in parentheses small apartment. So if he's watching TV or gaming, it keeps me awake. This means I don't get enough sleep either. So when I have to do uni work during the day in parentheses before I have work in the evenings, I zone out and usually fall asleep.
physically can't keep my eyes open, which is why I wish I could keep sleeping for an hour or so longer without having to worry if he got up or not. But I also don't want this responsibility. I also don't want this responsibility because I love him. I want him to be independent. And I know we're in a relationship and we're supposed to depend upon each other. And we do but I don't want him to depend upon me to get to work on time or to keep his economy in check or anything that would turn his life upside down should we break up.
I need to know he can take care of himself in case something happens.
Do you have additional thoughts based on that info?
Laura (26:16)
Yeah. is she saying that he keeps her up all night and then she's waking up earlier to wake him up like just to wake him up? Was that what is that what I picked up?
Crystal (she/her) (26:21)
Yes!
That's what I picked up. I can't go to sleep before him because our bedroom doesn't have a door. So if he's watching TV or gaming, it keeps me awake. This means I don't get enough sleep either. So when I have to do uni work during the day, parentheses before I have work in the evenings, I zone out and usually fall asleep. I can't keep my eyes open. So she's falling asleep at school, like in class, because she's so tired, which is why I wish I could keep sleep. So she's waking him up and then not going back to sleep.
for an hour or longer because she's worrying that he's not getting like she has to wake up and stay up to keep him on task. That's apparent.
Laura (27:17)
That's... Yeah, 100%. The way she made it, the way that I thought it was going on before, before this edit was, I thought their alarms were going off at the same time. And she was just shoving him and being like, hey, buddy, you got to get up. It's time for us to get up. Do you... If you were living...
Crystal (she/her) (27:38)
Yeah.
Laura (27:44)
with somebody. If you had a roommate and you were living in a small room with them and you liked to stay up late gaming or watching TV, how would you handle that?
Crystal (she/her) (27:54)
Okay, so being socialized as a woman, because I think that play, because I think that that plays a lot into it. Right? Like at least for as a person, I was also, I feel like it also contextually. Okay, here's the thing that's really interesting. My brain ping ponged off of like four things when you said that, because as a person who grew up in a big family,
Laura (27:58)
As a person.
Crystal (she/her) (28:21)
I grew up knowing the value and the respect for other people to if someone's sleeping, shut the fuck up. Like you shut the fuck up because in my family there was always a baby sleeping. So shut the fuck up. You're gonna wake the baby up. If you wake the baby up, mom's gonna be really pissed at you. Don't fucking wake the baby up. Shut up. growing up, right? Like it's our youngest, there's a four year age gap between our middle and our youngest.
Laura (28:30)
Mm -hmm.
you
Crystal (she/her) (28:51)
The youngest has no concept of shutting up while everybody's sleeping because she's like, why? And I'm like, because I'm going to freak out if you wake everyone up. and she I did a consultation as a shout out to our friends, Flint and Xilo who we're going to have on the podcast soon. But Xilo does neurodivergent like coaching for all kinds of people. But I called him and I was like, you got to help me with one of my kids. And he pointed out like developmentally.
Laura (28:56)
huh.
Yeah
Crystal (she/her) (29:19)
Our youngest is in a space where she has grown up thinking the world revolves around her because developmentally that's appropriate. Now she's making this transition where she's discovering the world is not supposed to revolve around her. She needs to take into account everybody else's feelings and thoughts and like not cater to them, but be aware that she's not the person that we're catering everything to, right? Because that turns into a dynamic that makes me burn out. I feel like a lot of
people don't learn that. Like I had roommates in college who like didn't who had who set multiple I don't understand the value of setting 10 alarms. If you don't wake up with the first one, and I will give you grace to say maybe the second one, you're not getting up on alarms three through 10. So stop waking me up every five minutes. That's not nice. So if I was gaming,
Laura (29:52)
Mm -hmm.
Yeah.
Crystal (she/her) (30:18)
I get a pair of headphones and I also learn to not verbalize while I'm gaming. You know what I mean? Like it's, that doesn't make any sense to me.
Laura (30:25)
Right. Right. That is, mean, thanks. The sharper image also has wireless headphones that you could listen to your TV with. There, I feel like, yeah, that's one of those things. I do know.
Crystal (she/her) (30:32)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Laura (30:43)
Like, I don't know, maybe my husband would disagree with this. I think a couple of alarms are fine. That's like one of those compromises that we've come up with because I've always needed like 15 alarms, but can somehow I know the last, I know the one, 712. Is this making everybody anxious that I wake up at 712, I leave the house at 750 and I get them to school at eight?
Crystal (she/her) (30:47)
You
Right.
What?
It's at 751 you put your shoes on it's making me anxious. I'll tell you what, but I do think as a teacher it makes sense to you because like, you know, school starts at like fucking 813 for no reason and you're like, okay, sounds good. That's drives me insane. But but also what you said there is very key. It's the compromise that you guys have come to. Right? It's the compromise that you've come to. It's not
Laura (31:18)
you
Yes. Yep.
Yeah.
Crystal (she/her) (31:37)
deal with it. Do you know what I mean? And disrespecting her sleep very much feels like deal with it. And then I'm mad at you for waking me up. It's like, or mad at you for not this is a no one situation for her. Because either she wakes him up and he's pissed off. Or like that's again, that's a very parental dynamic. That's a teenager mom dynamic, teenager parent dynamic.
Laura (31:38)
No, no, it's not. Right. Ew.
Yeah.
Okay, and let me reread that last bit so we can hammer that point home. She says, but I don't want this responsibility because I love him. I want him to be independent and I know we're in a relationship and we're supposed to depend on each other. And we do, but I don't want him to depend on me to get him to work on time or to keep his economy in check.
or anything that would turn his life upside down should we break up. I need to know he can take care of himself in case something happens.
That's so weird. How old are they? He's... They're both 25.
Crystal (she/her) (32:39)
Twenty, twenty five. They're both twenty five. They're young.
Laura (32:43)
I it's so weird. Like, can you who woke you up? And okay, here's the other thing. I got married when I was 27. You got married really young. But it it fucks me up that so many people go from living with their parents to living with their spouse. I would never want that for my kids. I would never want that.
Crystal (she/her) (32:57)
Yeah, I got married at 22. Yeah.
Yes. Yep. Yep.
Laura (33:12)
I had roommates and then I think I always had roommates. I think it would have been nice to live alone for a while, but I'll probably encourage my kids to do that. But you just learn so much. You just don't know. People jump into these relationships expecting like, yeah, mean, people rely on each other. That's important. It's like, this is not interdependence.
This is not interdependence. This is not reciprocal. That's not what this is. But we, and even then it's like, okay, if you're waking your partner up, cool, fine. If you're helping them with your finances, okay, cool, fine. Some people are better at stuff. Some people are not good at stuff. But this is still not a you depend on me, I depend on you situation. She's like, if I go away, he's going to die.
Crystal (she/her) (33:40)
No, no. Right, this is not reciprocal care.
Laura (34:10)
He's gonna not have money. He can't have a job without me. That's okay. If that's true, what are you gonna do about it? Right, right, right, right.
Crystal (she/her) (34:10)
Great.
Big yikes. If that's true, rut -row. Like, we need to, like, really think about this.
Laura (34:27)
Yes, there needs to be a conversation. There needs to be consent. There needs to be like, sometimes people can't work. Okay. Now what? Now what? Are you gonna get mad at her because she didn't wake you up even though she never agreed to that? Hmm.
Crystal (she/her) (34:37)
Right. Right. Right.
Right, right. And that's the thing too. think it's like, it's even because even in situations where folks can't work or they're disabled by their ADHD or by extenuating circumstances that they cannot control, that's, I'm trying to think of someone that I personally know who does not take responsibility for what they can control and what they can.
put into place in order to care for themselves, right? Be that a caregiver, be that advocating for, you know, mutual aid where they receive care from someone else and provide something to that person. it's, it's, I definitely can see the tie with like weaponized incompetence where it's like, you're making something that is her problem, something that is clearly not her problem.
Laura (35:17)
Yes.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's the thing. It's like, yeah, I have a couple of friends who can't work, who are unable to work and still show up in a caring way in their partnerships and are still like... That doesn't mean that there aren't big chunks of time that are very challenging to maintain relationships and things are really hard or...
Crystal (she/her) (35:53)
Right.
Right.
Laura (36:06)
they need additional care or they can give additional care. It's so unfortunate that individual needs end up being misinterpreted or misused or manipulated. It feels really hard to talk about this because it boils down to good faith. It boils down to being caring, being caring. And this is like not...
Crystal (she/her) (36:20)
Mm -hmm.
Right.
Right. Right.
Laura (36:35)
a caring thing to do, to put something on somebody else without an agreement or an acknowledgement. And that's the other thing. There's no acknowledgement of what it's costing her.
Crystal (she/her) (36:38)
rate.
Yeah.
Right. Right. Right.
Laura (36:48)
Because like, yes, as somebody who has needs that can sometimes be very challenging to deal with, I know it's hard to be, I know it's hard to be around me sometimes. And it's my responsibility to acknowledge the impact that I, my needs and accommodating me sometimes. It's hard and I have to acknowledge that. It's my responsibility to at least do that.
Crystal (she/her) (37:06)
Right.
Right. Right. Same.
Right. And because of that, I feel the same way, right? It is my job to try and have indicators so that I can also inform my partner, hey, I don't think I'm doing well. Like, I just like want you aware so that we can kind of try and game plan together, right? So we can figure out what we're doing. Because that is the kind of partnership that we agreed to enter into together. And so it's, yeah, it's very hard.
Laura (37:32)
Mm -hmm.
Crystal (she/her) (37:43)
I would say, I would be willing to say it's impossible to engage with your partner in that way if they aren't willing to be that self -aware or to have that engagement in that way.
Laura (37:56)
Yeah. Okay. Okay. Another tricky part of this comes down to, I feel like some people are just not taught that that matters. Like to be self -aware or to develop self -awareness is not a thing we should do. And that's where it's up to her to be like, right, am I willing to do this?
Crystal (she/her) (38:08)
Which part?
Okay.
Right, right. And to know that, like, she is not the asshole if she decides that that's not what she's willing to do.
Laura (38:33)
Right. is, yeah, you should be, I don't love that word should, like, ideally you would have clear transparency about what you're getting into and like be in a situation willingly. And it feels like at this point, she's like trapped or like, she feels trapped. She feels like she's trapped.
Crystal (she/her) (38:47)
Mm hmm. Yes.
Right, stuck.
Mm hmm. Absolutely.
Laura (39:00)
That's not fair. For him either. For him, don't you like not want your partner to feel totally trapped and as if they have no out?
Crystal (she/her) (39:09)
Right. And so then they have to come to Reddit to figure out if they're an asshole for telling you no. And like, having that to like being able that it's informed consent. Right? It's the thing of like, I wasn't aware that this is what I was dealing with, like, all in. And so I'm not willing, like, this isn't something that I'm able to like give my time or energy for. I don't agree to this now that I have all the information.
Laura (39:20)
Yeah.
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Crystal (she/her) (39:36)
Which again is hard, but would be easier if he was more, if he had had the self -awareness to be able to tell her, like this probably would play out differently, right? And be a much healthier situation.
Laura (39:47)
Yeah. And don't you think like, you know, she doesn't say anything about like, she doesn't really talk about a future together so much. But you've said this before. Like you think this is going to get better? You think that this is going to be the last situation where your feelings and the impact that a situation has had on you, it hasn't been disregarded or ignored or dismissed? Because it's not.
Crystal (she/her) (40:01)
Yeah.
Yeah, especially they've been, they've been together just over a year, she says. And so it's like, yeah, this isn't like if it's not my, my, my tendency would be to believe like, it's that whole thing of like, when people tell you who they are, believe them. Right. So it's a thing of like, if it's not this, it's going to be something different down the line. Right. And like you said, is this going to get better? Or is this just going to progressively get worse if the issue is like,
him not taking personal responsibility for his own stuff. What else are you going to get blamed for?
Laura (40:45)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Yeah. Yiker's not the asshole.
Crystal (she/her) (40:52)
No. Full endorsement, not the asshole.
Laura (40:56)
Not the asshole. Okay, let's put a link up here. And if you all didn't know, we have some ADHD tools that you can get in. Get it on our Patreon. And on our website, we have downloadables. And you have a workshop, correct?
Crystal (she/her) (41:19)
I do. have a workshop. I have a workshop that is for parents, for neurodivergent parents, specifically ADHD and autistic parents who are late diagnosed who are trying to figure out how to accommodate themselves, how to accommodate their kids, and how to navigate yourself and them at the same time. Because what the fuck, that is very hard. That's available on my website.
Laura (41:39)
Yeah, constantly. Very hard. Awesome. Yeah, let's put those links in the show notes. And if you want to support us, you can subscribe, you can review us, you can join Patreon for free or paid membership and support that way. That's it.
Crystal (she/her) (42:01)
Yeah, we have our September book club coming up, which is touched out by Amanda Monte. So want to plug that that one is free to everybody. But if you want we meet weekly with our Patreon supporters of any tier, but everybody's welcome to come and I love those meetings, those meetings on Tuesdays ground my week. It's been so great to be able to just like talk about what's going on with you guys and talk about what's going on with us. And it just makes it a really
Laura (42:18)
Me too.
Crystal (she/her) (42:29)
awesome safe space to talk about whatever.
Laura (42:32)
Yeah, we talked about, sorry, I'm just going to keep yapping. This last week, we talked about bedtime battles and showers. And not everybody who comes has kids or is even partnered. We just talk about all sorts of things. And we were talking about how, I mean, I had an hour and a half fight with my youngest about getting in the shower last night. But the other one will totally space out.
Crystal (she/her) (42:35)
Go for it. Yeah.
Laura (43:02)
She is me, I am her, we are we. And so we were talking about like, personal struggles with the shower being boring, and then like, totally getting distracted once you're in there. And then my, this is exactly what happened last night. One of them was, I left her alone for a minute and a half, I came back, she was on the bottom of the shower, just like,
Crystal (she/her) (43:03)
You
We are the same person.
Laura (43:30)
split like pretending to swim and I got in there and she what did she say to me she was like she said she said this to jack the other night I don't know where she picked this up she goes okay what happened was and it just like I what happened was
Crystal (she/her) (43:46)
immediately she's like okay what happened was I need to explain my god that's so funny she's like I know how this looks but let me explain to you the reasonable reason that I'm on the shower floor pretending to swim what had happened was
Laura (43:52)
And then...
you
And then, yeah, and then the little one fought me. And so to one of the people who came and she said that she deals with the same thing at her household, something showed up on my For You page today. And it was like about a child just like after fighting you, just like playing and having a great time in the shower. So relatable. We talk about stuff like that.
Crystal (she/her) (44:19)
living their best life. Yep, absolutely. We would be happy to have you in that in that crazy hot mess space. Absolutely. my god. So good. Bye.
Laura (44:24)
Yeah.
you
Okay, we'll talk to you all next time. Bye.